Curse

Chthon · May 14, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Merely holding the bridge is a surefire way to lose 4 shrines to 3. Even holding the bridge and sending 1 squad out to cap a 4th shrine is a loser if the defenders realize that all they have to do is kill that squad every time it ventures out.

Victory for the attacking team comes from generating constant pressure on the 4 non-bridge shrines so that the defenders never even think of going after the bridge because they're too busy. Where you put that pressure should depend more on where the enemy is (and is not) than on whether the shrine is internal or external.

As for capping the internal shrines being hard, it's not. A decent elementalist can kill the wall NPCs and solo cap both shrines if they're unguarded by human players. A team of 4 should have no trouble at all. (And, if they are guarded, that means the exterior shrines aren't.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

The fort can be a great "suck" of resources for either team. For the attacking team - if done properly with a small group of players, you can take a good portion of the aggro from the defending team. Of course as stated above, this does depend on the defending team being more nooby then not. The problem for the attacking team comes when other teammates decide to "help" hold the fort instead of keeping the capping pressure on the outside points.

I agree. When people see some modicum of success in the fort, they tend to abandon their posts and rush to "help," often ending up as a mob, and that seals your fate -- mobs cannot win as the attacking team on the deep maps.

Quote:

For the defending team, I like nothing better then letting the attacking team in and then repairing behind them. If I can lock 6 players into the fort (and most of the time they're not smart enough to use the base defender to suicide), then that's half the team not outside capping up the shrines.

Me too. My record is 8 locked inside without the sense to suicide.

Dr Strangelove · May 14, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

As for capping the internal shrines being hard, it's not. A decent elementalist can kill the wall NPCs and solo cap both shrines if they're unguarded by human players. A team of 4 should have no trouble at all. (And, if they are guarded, that means the exterior shrines aren't.)

It's not hard, it just takes an inordinate amount of time. First, you have to cap the side shrine to break down the door. Next, you have to find a caster to kill off the wall NPCs. Lastly, you have to cap a shrine next to a spawn point. In a gametype requiring fast capping and mobility, you're at a big disadvantage in the fort.

Breakfast Mc Rit · May 14, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It's not hard, it just takes an inordinate amount of time. First, you have to cap the side shrine to break down the door. Next, you have to find a caster to kill off the wall NPCs. Lastly, you have to cap a shrine next to a spawn point. In a gametype requiring fast capping and mobility, you're at a big disadvantage in the fort.

Gate guards don't respawn, so a good elementalist splitting from a competent team, killing off NPCs wouldn't hurt. Collapsing on a weakened fort after 2-3 laps would help a whole lot.

But that requires said competent team and without it I do have to agree that attacking the fort is going to hurt the team rather than help.

Shadow Slave · May 14, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I tend to tell teams to cap clockwise at first and aim to hold the outside shrines, ignoring the fort until we have a strong lead

Only when/if you are leading by quite a margin is it often worth going for the Fort at all.

You start running into trouble when you have more than 4 people trying to cap the same shrines.....usually completely unnecessary and a costly waste of players who should be capping something else on a map where the odds are already against you.

- If you happen upon an enemy who is simply following in your footsteps and capping the shrines back the second you leave them....then sometimes going for the fort is a nice way to break the pattern.

It really depends and changes based on the opposition AND the teams you get paired with.

Nuclfus · May 14, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Imo thats the best idea to do. IF you keep capping outside of the fort you have 5 shrines. Much easier then having to cap 2 shrines inside a base where a Spawn point is.

Just because you try to cap those shrines doesn't mean the enemy won't take them back or more likely just cut you down before you get there to begin with. Otherwise I might as well say that if you cap both inside and outside the fort you have 7 shrines instead of 5, which therefore makes it a better strategy.

If you don't put any pressure at all on the inner fort shrines, then the enemy is going to have 12 players against your 12 to fight over the 5 shrines that are left. Assuming your 12 can cap at the same rate as the enemy, that gives each team 2-3 shrines (out of only those 5) on average at any one time. The equal capping rates are after taking into account that they have a more central res location, with teleporters from inside the fort to critical points on the outer circuit, and the elite shrine NPCs (lvl 24 warrior and ranger) that can follow their team - which means even this losing scenario (2-3 shrines controlled by your team vs 2 + 2-3 shrines under their control) assumes your team's players are somewhat better so as to compensate for their advantages.

Deciding only to "hold the bridge" reduces that pool of 5 contested shrines to 3. That gives the enemy team 4 shrines they don't even have to worry about defending, which leaves all 12 of their players open for attacking your bridge and probably holding 1 or 2 of those shrines at any time.

Martin Alvito · May 14, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

My optimal strategy is a function of the capabilities and strategy of the other two teams on my side.

The following is almost always true:
1) My team of 4 can hold off 6-8 people in the central fort for a long time before collapsing, drawing valuable resources away from the fight for the outer shrines. Plus, four of our twelve resources (players) are then holding two-sevenths of the cap points - an excellent return on investment.

2) I am paired with idiots who are incapable of actually killing enemy teams in a 4v4 fight, but can run around in a circle and cap shrines.

3) The other teams I am paired with are either too bad at the game to do an effective job of holding the center or insist on remaining outside and scream at us the entire match for holding center...even though we win.

Therefore, we take the center. We win about 75% of the time this way on the enemy's map. When we lose, it's usually because the two teams we are paired with are too bad at the game to even cap shrines. Every once in a great while it's because somebody just owns us in center due to skill and matchup.

EDIT: On the spawn point complaint - you should ALWAYS be running a team with ranged, caster damage that does not rely on line of sight if you plan to take center. Then you can lock down players in respawn, compelling them to flee to the teleporters or stay back and out of range in order to survive.